Michael Mackenzie: Ace of Wands seems such a long time ago, but you'd be surprised (or maybe not as you seem interested) how many people remember it and still ask me about it.
Simon Coward: What series had you worked on prior to Ace of Wands?
MM: I hadn't done much T.V. before "A of W"; I'd only been an actor for 3 years, and had mostly worked in the theatre. I'd done an episode of Rogues Gallery for Granada, 2 or 3 episodes of Doctor In The House for London Weekend, and a single play for LWTV, Playing With Fire by Strindberg.
SC: Having been cast as "Tarot" how did you view the part?
MM: I viewed the part with excitement and trepidation. I had no idea what I was doing at first, apart from making sure that I looked good in the trendy clothes, fast cars, and beautifully designed sets! I thought he should convey the impression of great inner strength and mental and spiritual development, but be relaxed. But basically, I was so inexperienced I thought it best to do what I was told by the directors, and then watched a lot of the filming and "playbacks" to make sure I wasn't falling into any bad habits or gestures that would be annoying to the audience. I knew it had to be exciting!
SC: Did you do any special research for the series?
MM: I did no special research, except for learning what the Tarot cards where and watching my magical advisor, Ali Bongo, do tricks. But don't forget, in the late 60s and early 70s, there was a great deal of general interest in the occult and the spiritual, so we were to some extent on home ground.
SC: Do you think Tarot's character developed (or was allowed to develop) over the three series?
MM: Whether or not Tarot developed much is really for the audience to judge. It was difficult to be consistent because we had different authors, directors and even producers, but after a while the cast used to be able to take more control of the script to iron out any inconsistencies of character or story continuity, and it became easier to know what Tarot would not do or say. I always used to rely on Trevor Preston, who created the series, and John Russell, who directed a lot of them, and latterly produced as well; they both liked the series and both wanted it to be as quirky and way-out as could be allowed for what was officially a children's series. After the first series, I wore my large black contact lenses all the time, (originally they had been intended only to do the "inlay" of the image of Lulli when we were in E.S.P. contact) and this I think helped to give Tarot as special feel. I played him as if he was a little stoned all the time towards the end; (well, it was that era!)
SC: After two series, both Judy Loe and Tony Selby left and were replaced by Petra Markham and Roy Holder. How did this affect both you and the series?
MM: Obviously when characters leave and are replaced by others, something changes. Tony and Judy both gad other work to do, and felt that there wasn't much more they could do with their characters, but Roy and Petra filled the gap perfectly but differently. Fortunately, I knew them both anyway, and they knew each other and the series, so there was no problem. We've all remained friends, although as I now live ad work (mostly,) in Scotland we don't see much of each other. It was great fun with all of them.
SC: Was there talk of a fourth series being made? Would it have been a good idea?
MM There was, I would love to have done one, as it was very popular, I'm sure the public would have enjoyed it. But somebody different took over as head of Children's programmes at Thames, and obviously wanted to "do their own thing". The result was "The Tomorrow People", which although it ran longer wasn't in my opinion, as good or as imaginative, but then I'm biased! Anyway, I think Trevor Preston had had enough; he was doing so many other things it was difficult for him to fit is in anymore.
SC: Which story or stories did you enjoy most?
MM I loved Trevor's stories; it was his creation, and his were always the most "fantastic", like "Seven Serpents, Sulphur & Salt", with Russell Hunter as "Mr. Stabs". I also liked a lovely gentle story with Brian Wilde as "Mr. Peacock", that was good because Tarot didn't really win and couldn't cope with Mr. P.; it was just that Mr. P stopped being naughty! Also one of the very last ones, in fact the last one I think, with the beautiful extra-terrestrial jokers who programmed machines to go crazy. I also liked any story in which I was allowed to drive the BMW motorbike, or the cars fast, and when we could bring Ozzy the owl into things, but I can remember most of the villains! That was one of the great strengths of the series, the baddies were terrific, great fun to play, which is why we got so many good actors to play them.
SC: How much magic was done by you and how much by trick photography?
MM A lot of trick photography was used, some of it still quite experimental. We were one of the first to make use of "chroma-key" and we used inlay and a locked-off camera for time-lapse photography so that people and things could appear and disappear. But all the tricks I did myself. The magical advisor was Ali Bongo (real name Willie Wallace!) who is simply the best in the business. It was bear the beginning of a long career in T.V. and on stage for him too, and he did David Nixon's shows and now Paul Daniels as well. He make beautiful tricks, simple but spectacular, and so with a little practice and often several attempts (after all, that is the advantage of pre-recording!) I usually could make them look good. Ali had a stage act for a long time, which he still does, but he does a lot of consultation work for T.V. He's very good!
SC: Were there any especially difficult things you had to do?
MM: The most difficult thing I had to do was to make a speech as his guest at a Magic Circle dinner, because, after all, I have no real talent as a conjuror at all!
SC: Were you aware of the fact that most of the master tapes of the series have now been erased? How do you react to it?
MM I'm very sad to hear that most of the tapes have been erased. I really would have thought they might have kept them for all it would have cost. But after all, some idiot wiped most of Tony Hancock's classic programmes, so who am I to complain. No, I didn't know until you told me.
SC: Do you think the series would stand up well now?
MM: Yes, from what I can remember, I think it would still stand up well. It was a good format, exciting, and visually very exciting, and just as good, of not better, than a lot that's on now. However, maybe my memories are too fond, and perhaps I see the series through rose-tinted spectacles. I suppose the clothes and hair-dos would look very dated indeed, but that I think would be the only drawback.
SC: After all this time, how do you view the series?
MM: I think it was a very successful series; it was certainly very popular, and people still remember it.
SC: Do you have any special memories?
MM: My memories of it are mostly of having a really great time the whole time, meeting lots of smashing people, and being asked to open a lot of fetes, and signing lots of autographs in the supermarket, the pub or the street! But I wasn't too keen on being chucked into the Thames bound head and foot at night, jumping into the Thames in a strait-jacket, or the python that defecated in the studio just before we were going to record! The smell and the mess were unbelievable! I also have great memories of Fred Owl, who played Ozzy; a really daft bird, always wanting to get into the action, and great fun to take into the pub at lunchtime when we were doing location filming! Well, I hope that's given you some material; I didn't intent to go on so long, but once I started, memories came flooding back. I'm off to Russia on Wednesday; I'm doing one of these American T.V. mini-series on Peter the Great of Russia, lots of international stars, and me in a little but nice part; character of course, I don't play handsome heroes anymore!
SC: Thank you very much.
